Notice, once again, your first statement. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Doesn't make you feel better through, does it.

Please consider seeking professional help.

I, of course, was talking about killing one's own citizens. Not about those killed in a war with another state, or debatable accusations of "coercive application of sanctions." If you wish to make a case for either being counted, go ahead. I merely reject your contentions. Sudanese who speak Arabic generally call themselves Arabs, although others sometimes call them Arabised. They certainly have dark skin, and have many African roots, but so did that famous Arab leader of Egypt Anwar Sadat. If you ever get the opportunity to travel around the Middle East, you will find many dark skinned people who are culturally and linguistically Arab, and would take offense at being called anything else. They are the majority of the Sudanese population, and are the ruling class, which is most probably why Sudan has been a member of Arab League since the 50s. They have other names for those ethnic Africans from Darfur and the South. Not very nice. In any case, the semantics are irrelevant. You may believe otherwise, but I would again reject your contention.

According to this source, which I find pretty comprehensive:

users.erols.com/mwhite28/w....htm#sadhus

# Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979-2003): 300 000

* Human Rights Watch: "twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule ... murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis" [www.hrw.org/wr2k4/3.htm]
* 8/9 Dec. 2003 AP: Total murders
o New survey estimates 61,000 residents of Baghdad executed by Saddam.
o US Government estimates a total of 300,000 murders
+ 180,000 Kurds k. in Anfal
+ 60,000 Shiites in 1991
+ 50,000 misc. others executed
o "Human rights officials" est.: 500,000
o Iraqi politicians: over a million
* [These don't include the million or so dead in the Iran-Iraq War.]

The estimate of 300,000, seems pretty reasonable to me. You may disagree (with both myself and the U.S. Government) but, once again, I'd reject your contention. Saddam was in nearly complete control of Iraq for about 25 years, and the Baathists for another 5 or so, for a total of around 10,000 a year, give or take. Even if the low ball estimate of 300,000 for Darfur was true (which it is not) as that was from some time ago, and the killing has continued, it must certainly be higher. Add to that, the Christian and animist (generally not Arab speaking) killed along with government (Arab) forces in the South during the periods of (1955-1972) and (1983-well it is still going on although they claim it is not), and you get a total of around 2,700,000. Averaging out at over six times the Iraqi yearly total. Darfur alone is a larger number, accomplished in one sixth the time. Not as bad as, say, the DRC or Rwanda, but pretty damn bad, and certainly worse than Iraq.

So, now that I have done my best to both clarify my meaning, and reject your contentions, I'll address your posts no further, and try to get back to the subject of this thread. Don't bother replying, as your response will be ignored. I'm sure you will anyhow, for reasons discussed previously but, oh well. It is nothing personal, it is merely that I find your condescending attempts to belittle others, for whatever personal reasons, tedious, and i don't wish to waste my time sorting through them for the small kernels I might find of interest.


Tough place for female political activists:

Female Afghan official gunned down
Achakzai known for fighting for women's rights
By NOOR KHAN The Associated Press
Sun. Apr 12 - 11:44 AM

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — A female provincial official known for fighting for women's rights was gunned down in southern Afghanistan on Sunday, following a day of fighting in the region that left 22 militants dead, officials said.

A Taliban spokesman, Qari Yousef Ahmedi, claimed responsibility for the attack.

Gunmen killed Sitara Achakzai outside her home in Kandahar city and then drove off, said Matiullah Khan Qateh, police chief of Kandahar province. He said the four men drove up on two motorcycles and shot Achakzai as she was getting out of her car.

Achakzai, a dual German-Afghan citizen, spent the years of Taliban rule in Germany and returned to her native country to fight for women's rights, said Shahida Bibi, a member of the Kandahar women's association who worked with Achakzai.

A member of Kandahar's provincial council, Achakzai was vocal in encouraging women to take jobs and encouraging them to fight for equal rights, Bibi said.

The day before in neighbouring Zabul province, Afghan soldiers and police killed 22 militants in a nighttime gunbattle, the Interior Ministry said in a statement. The ministry said an Afghan army convoy had came under attack and police came to its aid.

The U.S. military separately reported that Afghan and coalition forces killed four militants Saturday in the same area _ the Shinkay district of Zabul province. It was not immediately clear if the reports referred to the same incident.

The U.S. said the joint forces were attacked Saturday by gunfire and rocket-propelled grenades while patrolling in Shinkay. They fired back and called in close-air support, a U.S. statement said.

Provincial police Chief Abdul Rahman Furjung said four bodies had been brought to the district police station but locals reported finding many more dead in the area. He also said 22 militants died.

Neither Furjung nor the U.S. military reported any civilian casualties, and the U.S. said no Afghan army or coalition troops were wounded.

Also Saturday, a suicide bomber was killed in southern Helmand province when he tried to enter a police station, the Interior Ministry said. Police shot the would-be bomber and his explosives detonated before he could enter the compound. The attacker was the only person killed, the ministry said.

Meanwhile, NATO forces reported that they killed 18 insurgents Friday in a strike against insurgents in Kunar province.

Salil:
> Arab does not mean Muslim, and despite the Western media constantly referring to the janjaweed militia as Arabs, they are not ethnically Arab. They're Africans.

We've had this discussion before, and I'm not sure you're right. Here's what wikipedia has to say:

"An Arab (Arabic: عربي‎, ʿarabi) is a person who identifies as such on linguistic or cultural grounds.[9][10] The plural form, Arabs (العرب al-ʿarab), refers to the ethnocultural group at large."

Not that wikipedia is the definite reference, but an Arab seems to be anyone in the Arab world (maybe defined by the Arab League) no matter what the color of their skin is.

Therefore the Sudanese are Arabs. And I'm pretty sure that's how they refer to themselves in North-Western Sudan.

Erik:
> Judge upholds man’s marriage to girl, 8

I don't understand how any fundamentalist Islamic government would ever outlaw marriages to children over the age of 5. Mohammed married a girl at 6, to criminalize that would be to say that Mohammed was wrong.