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So, anybody got any idea why people are so willing to believe lies about Israel, and ignore truths about the Palestinians?
On Campus: The Pro-Palestinians’ Real Agenda
Khaled Abu Toameh
Hudson New York, March 25, 2009
During a recent visit to several university campuses in the U.S., I discovered that there is more sympathy for Hamas there than there is in Ramallah.
Listening to some students and professors on these campuses, for a moment I thought I was sitting opposite a Hamas spokesman or a would-be-suicide bomber.
I was told, for instance, that Israel has no right to exist, that Israel’s “apartheid system” is worse than the one that existed in South Africa and that Operation Cast Lead was launched only because Hamas was beginning to show signs that it was interested in making peace and not because of the rockets that the Islamic movement was launching at Israeli communities.
I was also told that top Fatah operative Marwan Barghouti, who is serving five life terms in prison for masterminding terror attacks against Israeli civilians, was thrown behind bars simply because he was trying to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
Furthermore, I was told that all the talk about financial corruption in the Palestinian Authority was “Zionist propaganda” and that Yasser Arafat had done wonderful things for his people, including the establishment of schools, hospitals and universities.
The good news is that these remarks were made only by a minority of people on the campuses who describe themselves as “pro-Palestinian,” although the overwhelming majority of them are not Palestinians or even Arabs or Muslims.
The bad news is that these groups of hard-line activists/thugs are trying to intimidate anyone who dares to say something that they don’t like to hear.
When the self-designated “pro-Palestinian” lobbyists are unable to challenge the facts presented by a speaker, they resort to verbal abuse.
On one campus, for example, I was condemned as an “idiot” because I said that a majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas in the January 2006 election because they were fed up with financial corruption in the Palestinian Authority.
On another campus, I was dubbed as a “mouthpiece for the Zionists” because I said that Israel has a free media. There was another campus where someone told me that I was a ‘liar” because I said that Barghouti was sentenced to five life terms because of his role in terrorism.
And then there was the campus (in Chicago) where I was “greeted” with swastikas that were painted over posters promoting my talk. The perpetrators, of course, never showed up at my event because they would not be able to challenge someone who has been working in the field for nearly 30 years.
What struck me more than anything else was the fact that many of the people I met on the campuses supported Hamas and believed that it had the right to “resist the occupation” even if that meant blowing up children and women on a bus in downtown Jerusalem.
I never imagined that I would need police protection while speaking at a university in the U.S. I have been on many Palestinian campuses in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and I cannot recall one case where I felt intimidated or where someone shouted abuse at me.
Ironically, many of the Arabs and Muslims I met on the campuses were much more understanding and even welcomed my “even-handed analysis” of the Israeli-Arab conflict. After all, the views I voiced were not much different than those made by the leaderships both in Israel and the Palestinian Authority. These views include support for the two-state solution and the idea of coexistence between Jews and Arabs in this part of the world.
The so-called pro-Palestinian “junta” on the campuses has nothing to offer other than hatred and de-legitimization of Israel. If these folks really cared about the Palestinians, they would be campaigning for good government and for the promotion of values of democracy and freedom in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Their hatred for Israel and what it stands for has blinded them to a point where they no longer care about the real interests of the Palestinians, namely the need to end the anarchy and lawlessness, and to dismantle all the armed gangs that are responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent Palestinians over the past few years.
The majority of these activists openly admit that they have never visited Israel or the Palestinian territories. They don’t know -and don’t want to know - that Jews and Arabs here are still doing business together and studying together and meeting with each other on a daily basis because they are destined to live together in this part of the world. They don’t want to hear that despite all the problems life continues and that ordinary Arab and Jewish parents who wake up in the morning just want to send their children to school and go to work before returning home safely and happily.
What is happening on the U.S. campuses is not about supporting the Palestinians as much as it is about promoting hatred for the Jewish state. It is not really about ending the “occupation” as much as it is about ending the existence of Israel.
Many of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas officials I talk to in the context of my work as a journalist sound much more pragmatic than most of the anti-Israel, “pro-Palestinian” folks on the campuses.
Over the past 15 years, much has been written and said about the fact that Palestinian school textbooks don’t promote peace and coexistence and that the Palestinian media often publishes anti-Israel material.
While this may be true, there is no ignoring the fact that the anti-Israel campaign on U.S. campuses is not less dangerous. What is happening on these campuses is not in the frame of freedom of speech. Instead, it is the freedom to disseminate hatred and violence. As such, we should not be surprised if the next generation of jihadists comes not from the Gaza Strip or the mountains and mosques of Pakistan and Afghanistan, but from university campuses across the U.S.
On Campus: The Pro-Palestinians’ Real Agenda
Khaled Abu Toameh
Hudson New York, March 25, 2009
During a recent visit to several university campuses in the U.S., I discovered that there is more sympathy for Hamas there than there is in Ramallah.
Listening to some students and professors on these campuses, for a moment I thought I was sitting opposite a Hamas spokesman or a would-be-suicide bomber.
I was told, for instance, that Israel has no right to exist, that Israel’s “apartheid system” is worse than the one that existed in South Africa and that Operation Cast Lead was launched only because Hamas was beginning to show signs that it was interested in making peace and not because of the rockets that the Islamic movement was launching at Israeli communities.
I was also told that top Fatah operative Marwan Barghouti, who is serving five life terms in prison for masterminding terror attacks against Israeli civilians, was thrown behind bars simply because he was trying to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
Furthermore, I was told that all the talk about financial corruption in the Palestinian Authority was “Zionist propaganda” and that Yasser Arafat had done wonderful things for his people, including the establishment of schools, hospitals and universities.
The good news is that these remarks were made only by a minority of people on the campuses who describe themselves as “pro-Palestinian,” although the overwhelming majority of them are not Palestinians or even Arabs or Muslims.
The bad news is that these groups of hard-line activists/thugs are trying to intimidate anyone who dares to say something that they don’t like to hear.
When the self-designated “pro-Palestinian” lobbyists are unable to challenge the facts presented by a speaker, they resort to verbal abuse.
On one campus, for example, I was condemned as an “idiot” because I said that a majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas in the January 2006 election because they were fed up with financial corruption in the Palestinian Authority.
On another campus, I was dubbed as a “mouthpiece for the Zionists” because I said that Israel has a free media. There was another campus where someone told me that I was a ‘liar” because I said that Barghouti was sentenced to five life terms because of his role in terrorism.
And then there was the campus (in Chicago) where I was “greeted” with swastikas that were painted over posters promoting my talk. The perpetrators, of course, never showed up at my event because they would not be able to challenge someone who has been working in the field for nearly 30 years.
What struck me more than anything else was the fact that many of the people I met on the campuses supported Hamas and believed that it had the right to “resist the occupation” even if that meant blowing up children and women on a bus in downtown Jerusalem.
I never imagined that I would need police protection while speaking at a university in the U.S. I have been on many Palestinian campuses in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and I cannot recall one case where I felt intimidated or where someone shouted abuse at me.
Ironically, many of the Arabs and Muslims I met on the campuses were much more understanding and even welcomed my “even-handed analysis” of the Israeli-Arab conflict. After all, the views I voiced were not much different than those made by the leaderships both in Israel and the Palestinian Authority. These views include support for the two-state solution and the idea of coexistence between Jews and Arabs in this part of the world.
The so-called pro-Palestinian “junta” on the campuses has nothing to offer other than hatred and de-legitimization of Israel. If these folks really cared about the Palestinians, they would be campaigning for good government and for the promotion of values of democracy and freedom in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Their hatred for Israel and what it stands for has blinded them to a point where they no longer care about the real interests of the Palestinians, namely the need to end the anarchy and lawlessness, and to dismantle all the armed gangs that are responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent Palestinians over the past few years.
The majority of these activists openly admit that they have never visited Israel or the Palestinian territories. They don’t know -and don’t want to know - that Jews and Arabs here are still doing business together and studying together and meeting with each other on a daily basis because they are destined to live together in this part of the world. They don’t want to hear that despite all the problems life continues and that ordinary Arab and Jewish parents who wake up in the morning just want to send their children to school and go to work before returning home safely and happily.
What is happening on the U.S. campuses is not about supporting the Palestinians as much as it is about promoting hatred for the Jewish state. It is not really about ending the “occupation” as much as it is about ending the existence of Israel.
Many of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas officials I talk to in the context of my work as a journalist sound much more pragmatic than most of the anti-Israel, “pro-Palestinian” folks on the campuses.
Over the past 15 years, much has been written and said about the fact that Palestinian school textbooks don’t promote peace and coexistence and that the Palestinian media often publishes anti-Israel material.
While this may be true, there is no ignoring the fact that the anti-Israel campaign on U.S. campuses is not less dangerous. What is happening on these campuses is not in the frame of freedom of speech. Instead, it is the freedom to disseminate hatred and violence. As such, we should not be surprised if the next generation of jihadists comes not from the Gaza Strip or the mountains and mosques of Pakistan and Afghanistan, but from university campuses across the U.S.
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 2:49 AM<<So, anybody got any idea why people are so willing to believe lies about Israel, and ignore truths about the Palestinians?>>
In my experience the opposite is far more prevalent in America thanks to the blind, unconditional support of many Evangelicals there.
I'm not a Zionist and my years living in Amman made gave me a different perspective on the region than most Americans. I found I had to avoid the subject often on visits home unless I wanted to spend all my time arguing with relatives and friends. Such was their support and sympathy for Israel. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 3:55 AMI don't think most of these anti-Israeli students and professors of which he wrote, have much to do with evangelicals. Most of the evangelicals I've met, seem pretty uneducated and narrow. You know my feelings about fundamentalists of whatever stripe. The Evangelicals (and the Orthodox Jews) believe God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. I believe the UN did. IAW 242, the Palestinians (all other belligerents) are required to sit down with the Israelis to make peace and establish mutually recognized and secure borders. I think it is sad that so many otherwise many well meaning moral people propagate falsehoods that encourage groups like Hamas to continue with terrorist violence, in violation of this UN resolution, not to mention the Geneva Conventions. Especially since it hasn't worked, and has consistently proven counter productive.
Anti-Israeli bias is quite vocal among students and academics on the left, both in the U.S. and abroad. I always find it a sort of strange bedfellows situation when I see their alliance with the Islamic fundamentalists. By the way, it is much more wide spread on the left in Europe. Some leftist political philosophers seem to be recognizing the dichotomy though. Another recent book "Left in Dark Times" by Bernard-Henri Lévy, is an interesting examination of the subject.
I found it quite odd, during the Israel/Hezbollah conflict in 2006, seeing secular radical feminist lesbian protesters marching on the streets of London carrying signs with "We Are Hezbollah Too!" printed on them. I can think of nothing other than irrational bias that would explain their apparent support of one of the most violent, misogynistic, homophobic, illiberal, theologically based political organizations on Earth. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 10:04 AMDr. Walid Phares addresses the why - and it is VERY prevalent (the Anti Israeli sentiment) - in 'the War of Ideas' there's significant evidence to this being the by product of a decades long strategic influence initiative by the gulf states
its just like the cold war - the synergy of youth, idealism, and mis-education can be very dangerous
Erik - why should Palestinians abide by 242 if Israel refuses to abide by 181 (which 242 does not in any way abrogate)?
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 3:29 AM
It exactly mirrors my experience. Most of the Muslims I've discussed this with, have been relatively reasonable about things.
I had a long talk one evening in Germany with the son of the Palestinian Ambassador to Germany. He was extraordinarily fair minded about things. He listed the single greatest hinderance towards peace was a Palestinian feeling of hopelessness.
It's only those with the least vested interest this conflict, who seem to spew the most absurd bigotry, intolerance, and ignorance. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 5:45 AMSo, any speculation what sort of "feeling of hopelessness" this guy was dealing with?
Israeli Tourist Stabbed in Egyptian Red Sea Resort
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 13, 2009
EL-ARISH, Egypt (AP) -- An Israeli tourist vacationing with his family at an Egyptian Red Sea resort was stabbed and lightly wounded by Libyan laborer on Monday, said the local governor.
South Sinai governor Mohammed Hani Metwalli said that the tourist, who was staying at Nuweiba resort, was taken to the Israeli coastal city of Eilat for treatment.
A spokeswoman for the Yoseftal Hospital in Eilat confirmed that a man with a stab wound had been treated.
''A man was brought in this morning from Sinai. He had been stabbed in the face, he received stitches and was released,'' said Naomi Yitzhak.
The Libyan fled after Monday's attack, but left behind his passport. Authorities are searching for him.
Israel last week issued a stern travel warning telling its citizens to stay out of the Sinai, citing new intelligence about plans to attack Israeli tourists.
Personally, no matter what your friend says, I think it is just the opposite. Palestinians are encouraged by cynical opportunistic actors, most of whom hide in their basements when the bombs start falling, allowing others to do their dying, to have HOPE that they will eventually defeat the Jews through violence. Palestinians are no different than anybody else. Most people are ignorant and believe what they are told, when they want to believe, even if the evidence indicates otherwise. Equally cynical Israeli politicians (especially those on the far right, or from Orthodox parties) are happy to let them, as it allows them to further consolidate their position vis a vis the Palestinians.
I wonder, if the Palestinians were to commence a Gandhi-like campaign of peaceful civil disobedience, and wage it for as long as they have attempted to get their way through the application of violence, what would come of it. I suspect they would be no worse off.
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 8:14 AM<<As such, we should not be surprised if the next generation of jihadists comes not from the Gaza Strip or the mountains and mosques of Pakistan and Afghanistan, but from university campuses across the U.S.>>
Yes we should be very surprised. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 8:19 AM"The anti-Israel sentiment on campus is widely misunderstood and misdiagnosed. The vast majority of university students in the U.S. are not anti-Israel and not pro-Israel. They are uninformed, and if informed, neutral and leaning toward pro-Israel."
www.jewishpolicycenter.org/461/...ampus
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 8:35 AMWell, that is an opinion. However, statistically, terrorists of all stripes tend to have higher than average levels of education. They also tend to come from wealthier segments of society. I always shake my head when the political pundits and politicians publicly proclaim that if we can only provide the societies from which terrorists emerge with education and wealth, we will solve the problem, as there is little evidence to support this claim. Commonly accepted beliefs of the establishment are often simply wrong. The one thing that appears to generate terrorism is a perceived lack of equitable (as in actually representative and responsive to the needs of the populace) governance. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 8:41 AMAnd, your second point may well be valid but AD also states, in the same article:
"The reason we perceive the sentiment on campus as anti-Israel is that extremists throughout the world hate Israel—extremists on the left and extremists on the right. Israel is the Jew among nations, and the Jew is always caught between the black and the red. On college campuses, extremists of the left have louder voices and have more influence among the faculty—not the faculty of professional schools, but the faculty of arts and sciences. And that serves as a megaphone for anti-Israel attitudes on campuses."
And these are the ones doing the shouting. Just as that minority of religious fundamentalists are the ones making the most noise. Both verbally, and explosively. Watch some video of the recent anti-Israeli protests in Europe. Peace activists standing silently by while some shout about killing the Jews, and go on to burn down the local Starbucks.
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 10:02 AMLook, Erik and I are agreeing again. Egads.
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 11:18 AM<<I always shake my head when the political pundits and politicians publicly proclaim that if we can only provide the societies from which terrorists emerge with education and wealth, we will solve the problem, as there is little evidence to support this claim.>>
Me too, if the situation of Palestinians living occupation isn't addressed all the social improvements in Arab countries will change little. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 1:18 PMPerhaps. But I believe policies in the Arab states have also had a negative impact on the "situation of Palestinians" as well. There is no love lost between many Arab regimes and the Palestinians, and their policies reflect this animosity. For many, the Palestinians are merely pawns in a bigger game.
Remember it was King Fahd who said, "Next to the Jews, we hate the Palestinians the most." And, after Black September, the Hashemite Kingdom has had no reason to do them any favors either. Syria was scared to death of them, so they sent them on to Lebanon, where the PLO willfully participated in the civil war, and nearly got the country destroyed by the Israelis.
I think the best bet for the PA, is to keep the other Arab states out of it, and negotiate directly with the Israelis. They certainly couldn't do any worse than they have with the "help" of their Arab brethren for the past 60 years. Cut a deal. Get the best one you can negotiate, using whatever leverage you have, and get on with trying to improve the lives of your citizens. Isn't that what "hope" for a better future is all about?
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 2:11 PMJohn:
> Yes we should be very surprised.
John Walker Lindh? The famous Mill Valley terrorist.
I think in general, converts seem to be among the most radical of any religious people. So, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see more like him.
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 2:43 PMYes. And that includes those that return to the fundamentalist fold. Whether they be formerly secular or moderately religious Palestinians who are sucked into Hamas or even Islamic Jihad, or secular or moderately religious Jews that the Lubavitchers or other radical Orthodox sects convince to "return" to their roots. They, too, are essentially converts.
Makes you wonder what Carolyn will be up to in time. Needy, easily impressionable, personally insecure. Now, she seems to have found the answer. Who's answer? -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 2:52 PMErik:
> Makes you wonder what Carolyn will be up to in time. Needy, easily impressionable, personally insecure. Now, she seems to have found the answer. Who's answer?
I've previously posted about that, somewhat seriously.
1) Peace activist.
2) Befriends Palestinians and takes up their cause.
3) Converts to Islam (but admits she doesn't know much about the religion)
4) Starts filling her profile with Hamas militaristic propaganda. Check out the photos.
people.tribe.net/10carolyn...429ba82b63
people.tribe.net/10carolyn...45fccd468d
people.tribe.net/10carolyn...c37fe441f0
I can honestly say that I would not be surprised at all if someday I heard that she had been arrested or killed in some terrorist training camp. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 3:05 PMYes. My sister in law was similar. She went the Jewish fundamentalist route. She's now in the West Bank somewhere, teaching her children to hate. It's sad.
I just hope neither takes any others with them. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 4:42 PMErik,
That is messed up. Creating another generation of conflict.
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 5:40 PMAdam,
Carolyn is a belly dancer muslim who doesnt have a clue. If she's killed in a trining camp somewhere it will be by the trainers. I wouldnt be surprised if she winds up donating money or what not to some nasty causes, but I'd be super surprised to see her actually put anything on the line and do something.
thank god.
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 4:41 PM"I think in general, converts seem to be among the most radical of any religious people."
Adam,
Interesting consideration. But I wonder how your conclusion applies to Orthodox fanatics in the West Bank. I wonder how many of them are coverts. I'm not suggesting that all of the Orthodox Jews or that most of the settlers are fanatics, but I'd be curious to know what kind of percentage are converts and if there are many converts that are among the more militant of the Jews living in the West Bank. My guess, without any proof, is that most are not converts, but that many are transplants from the U.S. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 6:38 PMSheik:
> But I wonder how your conclusion applies to Orthodox fanatics in the West Bank. I wonder how many of them are coverts.
Search back through this tribe. There was a "Truth about the Seltters" or some such thread, which detailed the demographics of them vs. the people's prejudice. Some of the demographics were pretty detailed, and if I recall correctly, your guess is wrong.
Salil:
I'm just saying that it's super likely, but at this point, it wouldn't surprise me. -
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Re: Mideast Conflict on U.S. Campuses
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 8:41 PMyeah, you're right. It wouldnt suprise me either, really.
I love how she converted to Islam but doesnt know a damned thing about the Quran. not even how old the religion is. seriously, how retarded is she? I mean, she claims to have gone to college and earned a degree in English - I dont believe it. I know 18 year old kids who scored a 32 on their ASVAB who communicate more eloquently and cogently than Carolyn.
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